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MrPolly View Drop Down
Triassic Titan
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    Posted: 07 Feb 2010 at 12:03pm
Hi ntnt,
Can't help with the ID, but they're great finds.
Cheers,
Mr P.
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ophthalmosaur View Drop Down
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Posts: 115 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ophthalmosaur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2010 at 12:56pm

Hi Neil

Thanks for posting. Great finds indeed. So, Ophthalmosaurus posterior dorsal or early caudal at centre top (one rib attachment point on each side? a side-on photo would be great). Size approx. 10 cm? Top right plesiosaur caudal (a ventral photo would show the paired foramina?). Top left is a bit of a mystery as it appears to be a small ichthyosaur vertebra but not an Ophthalmosaurus posterior caudal (wrong shape). Since Ophthalmosaurus is the only ichthyosaur known from the Oxford clay it has to be from a juvenile (again some more photos would help). Bottom right rib sections, could be ichthyosaur or crocodilian.

Re. the jaw sections bottom left, can you post some more detailed images please?

Paul
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Posts: 115 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ophthalmosaur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2010 at 1:05pm

Mr Polly

Yes, the paired foramina are a distinguishing characteristic of the plesiosauria being present in both the plesiosaurs and pliosaurs. They lie at the bottom of the vertebrae in the neck region, migrating up the sides in the back region. Ichthyosaurs do not have them although there are nutritive foramina of course. The photo below shows Muraenosaurus neck vertebrae in which the foramina can be seen moving outwards posteriorly. The other photo shows an elasmosaurus (?) neck vertebra from Yorkshire (split rib attachments).






Edited by ophthalmosaur - 07 Feb 2010 at 1:06pm
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Bill G View Drop Down
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Posts: 2631 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Bill G Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2010 at 1:10pm
Some really nice specimens Guys. Thanks for posting.
Bill
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MrPolly View Drop Down
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Posts: 439 		Post Options Post Options   Quote MrPolly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2010 at 1:43pm
Thanks, Paul, that's very interesting. Are there any other suggestions as to the function of these foramina?  Lovely fossils again!

Cheers,

Mr P.
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ophthalmosaur View Drop Down
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Posts: 115 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ophthalmosaur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2010 at 2:12pm

thanks for the encouragement Bill - always appreciated!

Paul
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ntnt View Drop Down
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Posts: 107 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ntnt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2010 at 2:54pm
     Some more images, the large vert is 9cm by 4cm, the longest jaw section is 6 cm.
Thanks
Neil.
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ophthalmosaur View Drop Down
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Posts: 115 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ophthalmosaur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2010 at 6:10pm

Very nice photos Neil and nice fossils too! The Ophthalmosaurus vertebra is a posterior dorsal then (2 attachments near bottom of centrum). Well defined and hardly any crushing - lovely specimen. The smaller centrum is from the same part of the spine. We have to assume it is from a juvenile of the same species. Regarding the jaw sections, the two larger consist of more than one bone. Its very difficult to say for sure but I would guess that they are Ophthalmosaurus, probably lower jaw. (Photo of similar bits below.)

Paul
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Posts: 115 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ophthalmosaur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2010 at 6:27pm

Mr. Polly

One theory regarding the foramina is that they provided a connection between the top and bottom of the neck for nerves or something. However, they are also present in the dorsal and caudal vertebrae although in a different position. A mystery waiting to be solved.

Paul
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ntnt View Drop Down
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Posts: 107 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ntnt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2010 at 7:30pm
Thanks Paul, heres some more photos from the top right of the original picture (crushed).
 
Thanks
Neil.
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MrPolly View Drop Down
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Posts: 439 		Post Options Post Options   Quote MrPolly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2010 at 9:00pm
Great pics, Neil.

Thanks for the foramina info, Paul, it's intriguing....
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ophthalmosaur View Drop Down
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Posts: 115 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ophthalmosaur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2010 at 10:21pm

Neil,

I think it must be a plesiosaur sacral or anterior caudal. Interesting. Thanks for posting.

best wishes

Paul
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ntnt View Drop Down
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Posts: 107 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ntnt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2010 at 11:32am

Thanks,

Neil.

 
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