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paddle bone |
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Page 12> |
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ntnt
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Joined: 31 Jan 2010 Location: derby Online Status: Offline Posts: 107 |
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Topic: paddle bonePosted: 03 Feb 2010 at 4:58pm |
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Hi
Can anyone help with an id on this bone with bite marks. It comes from the oxford clay and i,m guessing its a ichthyosaur/plesiosaur tibia/fibia or radius/ulna. Its got quite a lot of bite marks probably from scavenging after death.
![]() ![]() Thanks.
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ophthalmosaur
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Posted: 03 Feb 2010 at 9:42pm |
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It's a radius from the ichthyosaur Ophthalmosaurus. Nice find. Some of the marks are probably cartilage or ligament attachment facets. Paul ![]() ![]() |
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ntnt
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Posted: 03 Feb 2010 at 11:18pm |
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Thanks for the id, i think most of the holes on the outside are ligament/tendon attachments as you say. but there are quite a lot of marks on either face of the bone.
Neil.
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ophthalmosaur
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Posted: 04 Feb 2010 at 10:47am |
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Hi Neil Yes, as you say some of the marks on the face of the bone look like predator damage. Interesting because of their oval shape and wide spacing. Any ideas? Did this come from a coastal location? Have you found any other vertebrate fossils from the Oxford clay at that location? Paul |
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Bill G
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Posted: 04 Feb 2010 at 11:13am |
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Nice specimens. The 'predation' marks are interesting.
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Bill
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MrPolly
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Posted: 04 Feb 2010 at 11:30am |
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Nice find, Neil. well done.
Paul, that's one hell of a fossil you have there! Cheers, Mr P. |
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ophthalmosaur
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Posted: 04 Feb 2010 at 3:08pm |
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Thanks Mr.Polly. I was interested in your recent finds at Lyme Regis. They look like dorsals. Nice preservation and as you say there must have been more attached. Also that fish is a great find with the fins visible top and bottom. Did you get an ID on it? Here is a bit more of that beast (sadly there was no head): ![]() |
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ntnt
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Posted: 04 Feb 2010 at 3:52pm |
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Great fossil paul, good find.
I,ll try and get some better close up pictures of the marks on either side, they aren,t oval its just that the angle of the holes isn't straight down from the angle of the picture which makes them appear oval. Im not sure what type of creature could have made them. The fossil comes from cambridgeshire, i,ve found quite a few other bits there but only single bones up to now, nothing as good as yours yet. I collect more often in dorset.
Thanks
Neil.
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ophthalmosaur
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Posted: 04 Feb 2010 at 5:10pm |
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Neil The close ups would be great. Would be interested in seeing the single bones too. Is there any Kimmeridge Clay in that location too or just Oxford Clay? Paul |
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ntnt
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Posted: 04 Feb 2010 at 6:36pm |
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Close ups of both faces of the bone, it's difficult to capture the marks in a 2d image but i'm pretty sure they are predation marks but of what animal i dont know plesiosaur/pliosaur/ or crocodile?
Im sure somebody will have published a paper on bite marks from the oxford clay though.
Paul theres just oxford clay, no kimmeridge, also some derived fossils from the ampthill clay.
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MrPolly
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Posted: 06 Feb 2010 at 12:09pm |
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Hey, Paul. That really is a beauty! I've been digging around at Lyme every opportunity I get, but I've still not found anything comparable to that! Is it mid-jurassic?
Mr P. |
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ophthalmosaur
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Posted: 06 Feb 2010 at 6:16pm |
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Neil I'd take a guess at plesiosaur as too sharp for crocodile and too small for pliosaur but could be any of the three e.g. the small pliosaur Peloneustes since its teeth are quite pointed. Mr. Polly Its from the Callovian stage of the Oxford Clay. Found this Muraenosaurus vertebra which is hardly mineralised. It is possible to push a piece of fuse wire right through it between the top and bottom foramina on both sides. Looks and feels just like sub-fossil bone. Bone from an associated jaw burns in a flame to a fine grey ash. Any thoughts? Paul ![]() |
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prep01
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Posted: 06 Feb 2010 at 7:12pm |
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That's an interesting find Paul, the detail is superb
What size is it please and where did you find it? |
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MrPolly
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Posted: 06 Feb 2010 at 8:28pm |
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" Bone from an associated jaw burns in a flame to a fine grey ash. Any thoughts?"
Don't burn the jaw bone! ![]() Seriously, I've not come across that kind of fossilization before, but I'm guessing there must be a very high oil content. Have you heard of the cliffs in Dorset that just catch fire occasionally because they are so oil-rich? Perhaps this is the same kind of thing. The vertebra is certainly a beautiful specimen. Cheers, Mr P. |
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ntnt
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Posted: 06 Feb 2010 at 8:50pm |
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Hi Paul
Brilliant preservation on the vert, great find well done, imagine finding a whole skeleton that well preserved.
Neil.
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prep01
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Posted: 06 Feb 2010 at 9:31pm |
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Mr P.
I don't know where it's from, but round my way (Bedfordshire) the Oxford Clay (Stewartby member, if they haven't changed it's designation) is certainly organic rich as they use this to cut down on fuel when firing the bricks! |
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ophthalmosaur
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Posted: 06 Feb 2010 at 10:29pm |
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Its from the Callovian bituminous shales so you are right it is a similar strata to the burning cliff of Kimmeridge, the shales of Kilve etc. I've seen the CT scans showing that the foramina are connected but this is the first time that I have seen a physical demonstration of same. One suggestion is that oil was pumped into the center of the vertebrae to maintain the balance of the neck along its length. The neck had 44 vertebrae and was as long as the rest of the animal. One wonders what chemicals may be preserved? Paul ![]() ![]() ![]() Edited to remove missing pic'. Edited by Bill G - 07 Feb 2010 at 1:07pm |
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ophthalmosaur
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Posted: 06 Feb 2010 at 10:36pm |
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can't seem to get it to take the third image, trying separate post (OK it doesn't like "&" in file name, also doesn't like long file names): ![]() Edited by ophthalmosaur - 06 Feb 2010 at 10:39pm |
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MrPolly
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Posted: 07 Feb 2010 at 10:33am |
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Paul, again, great finds and very interesting stuff. I like the idea that they used hydraulics to maintain the balance of the neck. Do other (short-necked) marine reptiles have similar foramina? I've never noticed anything like that on the ichthyosaur vertebrae that I have.
Cheers, Mr P. |
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ntnt
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Posted: 07 Feb 2010 at 11:34am |
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Hi, good finds again paul, heres photos of the other finds from the same area. Any ideas on what animal the 3 jaw sections on the bottom left are from?
Thanks.
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