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Darren C

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Reply with quote  #1 
Cracked open a nodule from Whitby, found near to the jetty and there's signs of an ammonite inside which looks like spines or is it just attached matrix?

DSCF3672.JPG  DSCF3673.JPG  DSCF3674.JPG

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Bobo the bear

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Reply with quote  #2 
Quite a lot of ammonites have spines and I'm sure Andy will ID for you but may need more preparation
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AndyS

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Reply with quote  #3 
Peronoceras ammonite - they do have spines.
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Darren C

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Reply with quote  #4 
Thanks Bobothebear,

My preparation skills are fairly limited I'm afraid, (hammer and small cold chisel) nothing more precise to use at the moment, hence only the peaking ammonite. I've smashed enough in half already with my primitive hand.

Which side would you try to take off, the top bit or the bottom bit (as shown on the photo) any advice would be a huge help

regards

Darren
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Darren C

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Reply with quote  #5 
Hi AndyS,

Thanks for your reply, any thoughts if the one pictured above is an Peronoceras ammonite or does there need to be more ammonite showing for a better I.D

Regards

Darren
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Crann

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Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren C
Hi AndyS,

Thanks for your reply, any thoughts if the one pictured above is an Peronoceras ammonite or does there need to be more ammonite showing for a better I.D

Regards

Darren


Hi, definitely looks like a Peronoceras, well aimed hit should have it opened up nice, very similar to the Dactylioceras but with spines, can be found on Yorkshire coast easily but not as common as the Dacs, nice looking ammonites.
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Crann

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Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren C
Hi AndyS,

Thanks for your reply, any thoughts if the one pictured above is an Peronoceras ammonite or does there need to be more ammonite showing for a better I.D

Regards

Darren


This is a Peronoceras I found in a concretion like yours, exposed it with a few blows and minor work inside.

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Elbert

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Reply with quote  #8 
Hello, this is probably a Peronoceras with all spines intact, wich is not a common find and I think it would be a shame to wack and damage it.
I suggest you keep it as it now is untill a possibility to properly prep it, or have it prepped, arises.
Nice find!

greetings, Bert

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TOARCIANJOHN

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Reply with quote  #9 
Hi Darren,, re. ammonite spines. If you can get access to a book on French ammonites as under, you will see the possible preservation, and nodules are best for that.

LES DACTYKIOCERATIDAE DU TOARCIAN INFERIEUR ET MOYEN.  by LOUIS RULLEAU and others.  Book reference is,,ISBN 978-2-917151-50-1.. TRY YOUR LIBRARY TO OBTAIN IT.
Greetings,  TOARCIANJOHN

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prep01

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Reply with quote  #10 
Hi Darren , THIS IS DEFINATELY NOT ONE TO BE HAMMERED OUT!!!!! If you do, it will almost certainly break off every spine!
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Darren C

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Reply with quote  #11 
Hi everybody,

Thank you very much for the advice and knowledge.

I'm sure if i wack it, i run the risk of taking off them spines, have ruined a ton of stuff already.

Will keep hold of it till the opportunity arises for a proper prepping

Thanks

Darren
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Crann

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Reply with quote  #12 
Spines won't be any bigger than what you can see in the exposed part of that nodule, they tend to open easily and looks like a good spot to tap on the left of nodule but upto you, you never know how it will split or how preserved it is inside.
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Darren C

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Reply with quote  #13 
Hi Crann,

Ha, do I, dont I tap it?

It sounds like they often open nicely.

Are the spines not a weak point?

Darren
 
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Crann

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Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren C
Hi Crann,

Ha, do I, dont I tap it?

It sounds like they often open nicely.

Are the spines not a weak point?

Darren
 


Won't be a weak point on those, it's the larger ones that are weak, more like little nobbles on these, if you hold the opposite side of where you are tapping and tap it gently towards your hand so your hand absorbs the blows it should just open up by the looks of it, would use a light hammer too, cheers, Alan
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Darren C

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Reply with quote  #15 
Hi Alan,

Do you mean holding the concretion in the hand in such a way that the bit you're tapping is towards the palm? like napping the bit nearest to the palm?

Also, i didn't notice before, but looking at picture 2, in the upper left hand side, it looks like a damaged outer whorl, will go to the garage and have another look

Darren
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Darren C

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Reply with quote  #16 
Hadn't noticed before, it does indeed look like I've knocked off a section of the outer whorl.

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Crann

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Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren C
Hi Alan,

Do you mean holding the concretion in the hand in such a way that the bit you're tapping is towards the palm? like napping the bit nearest to the palm?

Also, i didn't notice before, but looking at picture 2, in the upper left hand side, it looks like a damaged outer whorl, will go to the garage and have another look

Darren


Yea so there's no stress on the other end, your palm taking the force, looks possible that part of the outer missing but could still be nice inside.
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Darren C

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Reply with quote  #18 
Would you try and take off the "thinner" bit of the two sides? DSCF3673_LI.jpg or the bottom fatter bit
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Crann

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Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren C
Would you try and take off the "thinner" bit of the two sides? DSCF3673_LI.jpg or the bottom fatter bit


I think if you used a small cold chisel on the thinner bit there's a chance it could just chip bits away making it more difficult, I would tap from the left of the photo where it looks more bulky so less chance of damaging the Ammonite, it looks like it would just lift after a couple of taps but you never know unfortunately, cheers.
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Darren C

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Reply with quote  #20 
Hi Alan,

Thanks for the advice, ill put a picture on of the results if i "go for it"

Thanks

Darren
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prep01

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Reply with quote  #21 
I hate to interject, but why would you risk mutilating what could be a superb specimen by using a hammer and chisel? I realise that it's not 100% sure that something won't go wrong if professionally prepped, but the odds are orders of magnitude less! Below are are a comparison (different  ammos and preppers).

bad.jpg  spiny.jpg



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Colin Huller
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Elbert

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Reply with quote  #22 
Hello, I agree, Colin.
But in this learning proces it is so that you need to smash a certain amount of good material before one realises it is better to have some patience.
For some this is a small amount of material, for others, a lot...

greetings, Bert

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Crann

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Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Originally Posted by prep01
I hate to interject, but why would you risk mutilating what could be a superb specimen by using a hammer and chisel? I realise that it's not 100% sure that something won't go wrong if professionally prepped, but the odds are orders of magnitude less! Below are are a comparison (different  ammos and preppers).

bad.jpg  spiny.jpg



I agree with those specimens you have posted that I wouldn't start hammering away as too delicate and rare but this is totally different, Google images of Peronoceras and you won't find a spine in sight, cheers.
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Crann

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Reply with quote  #24 
I have a nice sized Apoderoceras that I have had around a year and not touched, the hammer will not be meeting that for sure, that is waiting for when I have a work station as spines still intact.
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prep01

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Reply with quote  #25 
Crann, your equipment isn't everything! Prepping is both a science and an art! There are many factors to be taken into account! The most important if you like is experience and this takes time - a long time and mistakes will be made during that time. Each nodule has it's own charachteristics in hardness, pyritc content, structure etc.
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Colin Huller
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Crann

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Reply with quote  #26 
Quote:
Originally Posted by prep01
Crann, your equipment isn't everything! Prepping is both a science and an art! There are many factors to be taken into account! The most important if you like is experience and this takes time - a long time and mistakes will be made during that time. Each nodule has it's own charachteristics in hardness, pyritc content, structure etc.


Oh I know... ha
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Darren C

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Reply with quote  #27 

Good morning,

It's a very interesting discussion for a novice person like me. I lack the knowledge and experience on whats worth hitting with a hammer/chisel and what needs to be kept back and prepped properly for a later date, i dont have the tools and i'm not in any rush either.
From a learning point of view, it seems to be OK to break stuff in order to gain the skills and experience, it still feels a bit disrespectful hammer away without skill
I picked these nodule up with my little boy on a family holiday to the yorkshire coast quite easily, but its a 6 hour round trip travelling from the north west. My boy and I do seem to like the ammonites, they make very interesting fossils and breaking one seems wrong, although i think if i lived in yorkshire, I'd be less troubled by breakages as the shore is littered with nodule worth opening

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Elbert

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Reply with quote  #28 
Hello Darren, I noticed that your nodule is seaworn, so it has been in the water for a longer period.
This tends to make the nodules harder and more brittle; a forced attempt to open it will, no doubt, break some of the spines off even if it would open cleanly.
You have no garantee whatsoever though, that the nodule will behave...
So it is probably better to be patient and have it prepped or prep it yourself when you have the skill and the tools.

greetings, Bert

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Darren C

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Reply with quote  #29 
Hi Bert,

I do like the idea of having the tools and skills to prep myself.

Weighing up the pro's and con's of the expense, enjoyment and having someone else prep it seems to be the end question for me to work out. I did have a conversation about this with another member of the forum a bit back.

If i'd found something very special like that fantastic ichthyosaur, without doubt a professional job, just not sure a small ammonite is worth paying someone to do it

Darren
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Darren C

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Reply with quote  #30 
I am swaying towards having the skills and tools to do myself though,just need to convince the wife [biggrin][biggrin]
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Crann

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Reply with quote  #31 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren C
I am swaying towards having the skills and tools to do myself though,just need to convince the wife [biggrin][biggrin]


Common find like this and worth a shot I think otherwise looking at £40 or so to prep every one you find and ends up pricey after your 30th 40th 50th find. Set the good/rare stuff aside.
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Darren C

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Reply with quote  #32 
Hi Alan,

Thank you 
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prep01

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Reply with quote  #33 
Gents - have you thought of the consequences - a life's equivalent of knowlege, wives and children's povery, 1000's of pounds worth of equipment idle, rusting away etc? [frown]
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Colin Huller
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Crann

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Reply with quote  #34 
Quote:
Originally Posted by prep01
Gents - have you thought of the consequences - a life's equivalent of knowlege, wives and children's povery, 1000's of pounds worth of equipment idle, rusting away etc? [frown]


It is true that two fully grown men can indeed fall in love...
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prep01

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Reply with quote  #35 
Ha, ha
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Colin Huller
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trialsin808

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Reply with quote  #36 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crann


I agree with those specimens you have posted that I wouldn't start hammering away as too delicate and rare but this is totally different, Google images of Peronoceras and you won't find a spine in sight, cheers.


Proper difficult to get to the middle with all the spines but it is doable - seen another members collection where his subarmatum had sharp spines all the way to centre before think mm's work

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