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stonejumper
Hi,
Few finds I'd like some help with please. Enjoyed my 2nd ever outing to Aust Cliff, found a few small bits and one big block of bed. First one is corprolite and i have two mandibles?
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prep01
Firstly, welcome to the forum. You have some nice samples there! I am no expert, so I will leave the rest to someone who knows more than I do!!!
Colin Huller
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Dirty Pete
Hi Stonejumper, some nice bits and pieces you've got there, assume from the block I mentioned on the other thread. Usual bonebed stuff, lithic clasts, phosphatic nodules, coprolites, indeterminate bits of bone. Your nice bits of fish jaw with teeth I think are Severnichthys acuminatus. The tooth in the last pic seems to have lost its lateral cusps but could be Hybodus cloacinus, but don't quote me...The claystone with multiple depressions in it is quite common at Aust, I always assumed it to be the remnants of a nest of bivalves but I could be wrong. There's a guy named PKChef on the site who pops up now and again who may add to or correct my ramblings.

Pete
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P King Chef
Agree with Dirty Pete on some of the id's. The third pic (round shiny thing) is a derived coprolite, which means it has been previously fossilised, washed out and polished by the sea and then re- fossilised in the bone bed. Your two jaw sections are from Severnichthys acuminatus showing the tusk like teeth. Have you tried fitting them together as they look very similar and could be the same piece split down the middle?
The plate of impressions are infilled bivalves, quite common.
The last one is the centre cusp of Polyacrodus cuspidatus a hybodontid shark.

@Dirty Pete I think that is the current name for it.


@stonejumper 

Severnichthys jaw prepped.
SJaw01.jpg 


Complete Polyacrodus tooth
P1000211 (600x450).jpg 
Pete

At work I have to make a lot of sacrifices.
It's one of the benefits of being a Druid.
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P King Chef
@stonejumper 

Have a look here.
https://www.discussfossils.com/post/aust-8029319?highlight=aust&trail=50
Pete

At work I have to make a lot of sacrifices.
It's one of the benefits of being a Druid.
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stonejumper
Hi,
Many thanks for the ID's and the welcomes!
As mentioned above it was only my second outing in search of fossils and I'm enjoying it so far. Many apologies if anyone has come across my butchering  skills at Aust Cliff from what i think was the left block of bed by Dirty Pete. It did give me several hours of enjoyment though and i loved ever minute!
I'll be butchering a little more at home as I've just purchased an Dremel engraver, just to have a play around.
So, just to check the first photo is not corprolite, looks like limestone rock?
Chris
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prep01
Hello Stonejumper, for the smaller fossils in your blocks an engraver might not be your best tool, so I would get yourself some white vinegar and a selection of artist's brushes with which to apply the acid and be near runnng water so that you can wash the acid off frequently and examine the surface for small teeth etc - a hand lens (x10) or a magnifying lamp will also b!e of great help. Many small teeth are commnly 5 - 10mm in length! A lot of the bone chunks will not be identifiiable. Good luck with you steep learning curve!
Colin Huller
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Dirty Pete
Hi again,
Certainly looks like a coprolite, tapered, maybe hint of a spiral structure. However it seems to have a mass of tiny black inclusions and to a lesser extent so does the surrounding rock so wouldn't like to commit myself 100%. Not sure from where in the sequence it comes either. Maybe you can figure it out for sure with the specimen in hand. Maybe PKC will chip in. Be careful with the acid, some of the bones/spines have pure calcite cores. Surprised you didn't find a shark spine in that block. Good luck with your prepping, the bonebed can be as hard as nails....as you probably found out by while beating the proverbial out of the block on the beach.

Pete
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stonejumper
I'll try smelling it when i get home! Joke.
All, thanks for the info.
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stonejumper
Only me again! Just got round to cleaning one of the larger blocks i took back.  Looks really interesting, can anyone please tell me what im looking at, skin with bone underneath?
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stonejumper
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Dirty Pete
The bone bed was deposited under highly energetic conditions, once things calmed down finer clay material settled out on top. This is generally known as the 'clay drape'. I think that's the 'skin' you're referring to.

Pete
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P King Chef
What you're looking at is the top of the bone bed as it is in the cliff. The grey textured looking stuff is known as beef, it is a type of fibrous calcite. The piece exposed is just a clast from the Blue Anchor formation which is the layer of rock below the bone bed. 
Pete

At work I have to make a lot of sacrifices.
It's one of the benefits of being a Druid.
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Dirty Pete

Stonejumper, here's an overview of the bonebed by Trueman/Benton (Bristol Uni), hopefully it'll help with interpretation of your finds

The Aust Cliff bone bed is a discontinuous deposit, varying in thickness from 0 to 300 mm. The bone bed rests on an uneven erosion
surface, and it consists of a fine, grey, shelly, micritic matrix, accounting for about 50% of the deposit. In this matrix are numerous clasts of four
types, apatite clasts (bones, teeth, coprolites, phosphatic nodules), rip-up clasts of the underlying Blue Anchor Formation, and lithic clasts of
either quartz or Carboniferous limestone. Of these, the first two are overwhelmingly dominant. The apatite clasts grade normally, but the
rip-up clasts are reversely graded, presumably the result of freezing of a turbulent sediment-rich flow. The dense apatite fragments sank through a
soupy matrix of carbonate mud, and the less dense mud fragments were suspended within this matrix after flow stopped. The final stages of
deposition consisted of settling of fine clays from suspension, leaving a mud drape over the top surface of the bed. The Aust Cliff basal bone bed arose from a
high-energy, storm-driven fluid flow, reworking an area rich in apatite debris, with occasional quartz and limestone lithic clasts. The abundance
of rip-up clasts solely of Blue Anchor Formation suggests that the source of the bones and teeth was also stratigraphically close to the Blue Anchor
Formation.

Pete
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prep01
Thanks for that Pete, clear as mud' now - rolls over the floor laughing so much it hurts!
Colin Huller
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stonejumper
Sorry I've been a little embarrassed to post again since what i thought was skin was infact mud! I really thought i had found something special even though i still think it looks beautiful.
Thanks for the info on the way the land lies at Aust. I now understand this is going to take many years to begin to take in how this great big place we live in was formed, if ever.
I'm hooked, being a climber i thought i knew a little regarding geology, but i know so very little.

Anyway, i went to Lilstock beach today and only found my first vert from an Ichthyosaurs(unless you tell me otherwise)? Poor state but still very much loving holding it in my hand. 20191122_151718.jpg 
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stonejumper
Sorry i have been a bit embarrassed since my skin turned out to be mud! Being a climber i thought i knew a little about geology but i think this might take the rest of my life to understand properly.
Thanks for the info again Pete!
Anyway, went for my 4th outing today at Lilstock Beach and only found my first vertebrae, Ichthyosaur? Well and truly hooked now, been scraping away all night.
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prep01
Well done! Yes, your first find is an Ichthyosaur vertebra, unfortunately with a big hole in it. The next fosskils are Gryphaea arcuata (known as 'devils toenails') and are an early oyster. The last photo is of a geological structure, but I'm no geologist! The fossils are Jurassic in age.
Colin Huller
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Dirty Pete
The mineral cluster looks like dogstooth Calcite.

Pete
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stonejumper
Thanks! I knew the vertabrae was in bad state but still very chuffed with it.
I did a bit of research on how to clean the dogs tooth calcite, found out a product called Iron Out is supposed to take out all the iron marks. Going to give it a try.

On to todays... i took my youngest to Charmouth and we had a great day out but not so many great finds.  Loads of Belemnites, a few small ammonites and a few other small bits which I'm not sure what they are, any ideas?
If I'm boring you with my finds just let me know =-)
Poop?
20191124_181827.jpg  20191124_181840.jpg  Small Urchin?20191124_181859.jpg  20191124_181909.jpg  20191124_181924.jpg  just flint? 20191124_183219.jpg  20191124_183227.jpg  20191124_183232.jpg  20191124_183232.jpg  20191124_183246.jpg 
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Dirty Pete
The brown/orange stuff I suspect is oxidised pyrite / iron oxide nodules, the grey stuff is flint/chert formed in a burrow or the like.

Pete.
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TonyL
prep01 wrote:
Well done! Yes, your first find is an Ichthyosaur vertebra, unfortunately with a big hole in it. The next fosskils are Gryphaea arcuata (known as 'devils toenails') and are an early oyster. The last photo is of a geological structure, but I'm no geologist! The fossils are Jurassic in age.


I'm sure they are Gryphaea obliquata, G arcuata have a pronounced posteriour sulcus (ridge along one side) which are absent on stonejumpers examples.

Tony
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prep01
TonyL wrote:


I'm sure they are Gryphaea obliquata, G arcuata have a pronounced posteriour sulcus (ridge along one side) which are absent on stonejumpers examples.

Tony

You might be correct but I can't get a paper at the moment (send me the pdf if you can).
Colin Huller
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TonyL
Colin,
          I based my observation on my own 'hands on' experience of these fossils, not by reading a 'paper' written by someone else.
The difference between the two is very obvious and 'easy to tell', I can, if you wish, post a photo of the two together, when the light allows, to demonstrate.

Atb
Tony
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prep01
why not!
Colin Huller
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TonyL
why not! ?????, I take it that is your rather impolite way of saying 'yes please' 😕

Left to right Gryphaea obliquata, Gryphaea arcuta & Gryphaea bilobata (which I 'threw into the pot as these three are the most commonly encountered in England and may be useful for identification purposes for other members in the future)


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Richard
Hello TonyL
Since you are a relative newcomer to this forum you may not appreciate how great a contribution Colin makes in answering queries on this forum. I see nothing impolite in his 'why not' so suggest you think twice about what you say. 
Richard
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prep01
Thanks Richard, I don't mean to be rude!
TonyL I have just got a PDF of the paper I needed and will be back to you when I've read it.
Colin Huller
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TonyL
Richard wrote:
Hello TonyL
Since you are a relative newcomer to this forum you may not appreciate how great a contribution Colin makes in answering queries on this forum. I see nothing impolite in his 'why not' so suggest you think twice about what you say. 


Hello Richard,
                      I totally agree with you, there is nothing wrong at all with 'why not', however, even with a basic understanding of the English language, by adding a exclamation mark it becomes something else.
Yes I am a newcomer to this forum but I am far from being a 'newbie' to our hobby of collecting and studying fossils.
I joined this forum to learn and hopefully contribute to it on occasion, which I would not dream of doing unless I knew the identification or information I gave was correct.
On this thread the information I gave is correct, to be honest it's basic 'schoolboy fossil club' stuff, and Colins insistence of reading it in a paper really makes me feel that until he reads it in a paper written by someone else that the information that I gave is incorrect.
On a personal note, I do not hold much interest in 'papers' as they are long winded therfore boring and often incorrect, you often see a paper 'corrected' by another writter later on.
On another thread that I contributed to Colin wanted to know what my post had to do with that thread,which if he had compared my photo with another on that thread, as another member did, it would have been obvious.
Not too sure of your meaning 'think twice about what I say', I think many times before 'I say something'.
I really don't think this forum is for me, it seems rather clicky and all too easy to upset 'experts' when trying to contribute to the forum.
I have just tried to delete my 'account' on here but it's just 'chucks me back' after entering my password so can admin please close my account?

Atb
Tony
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