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paleosworld
I like the last photograph. An interesting piece.
Saluti Massimo.
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clypeus
cypraeidae  GISORTIA SP. ( size = 18 cm. ) lower eocene ( Ypresian ) from Vicenza - Italygisortia_2.jpg 
ITER IN PRAETERITUM
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prep01
Nice conch - size? have you got a pic of the other side? Please
Colin Huller
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clypeus
gisortia_3.jpg 

ITER IN PRAETERITUM
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cabby

Very nice find,well done.


        Cheers Cabby
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Tabfish
Great find Massimo, it is something I have never found or seen in a fossil - so I also think it is very interesting.
 

Tabfish
Tabfish at the Waterside
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beatpete
Massimo,
are you sure your gastropod is 18 cm in size?!

 
Beatpete
----------------
Anywhere for little ammonites, twice as far for big ones!
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clypeus
Hi there,
18 cm. is not the longest size for gen. Gisortia or Vicezia.
Some years ago I've found a 21 cm. sized Gisortia Tubercolosa in the same strata.
Cheers

ITER IN PRAETERITUM
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clypeus
Hi,
You're right, it's really uncommon! you can find the same gen. in the luthetian strata of
Paris bassin.
In the Italian eocene level of  "San Giovanni Ilarione" the same fauna as in the Paris basin.
clypeus

ITER IN PRAETERITUM
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prep01
Well clypeus - that is fantastic! I have to say, I thought you meant millimeters! 
Colin Huller
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clypeus
Ok understood,
I'll post a picture of it with the ruler.
Clypeus

ITER IN PRAETERITUM
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Chris Newman

Very nice, I have a similar specimen I collected from the Brackelesham formation in the UK, smaller at 10cm.  Gisortia are an interesting group, very confused taxonomically.  Very interesting to note how similar your specimen is in comparison with UK specimens.     

Chris Newman
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clypeus
Hi Chris,
Yes, once I went fossil hunting at Highcliffe and Barton and when I came back to Italy I could test that
our bartonian fauna is very similar.

ITER IN PRAETERITUM
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Chris Newman

That is very interesting, I collect offensively from the Barton and Brackelesham formations here in the UK.  Also from the France, and its interesting the similarity between the two.  I have not seem much from Italy,  I am aware there are localities in Italy but seen very little material.  Do you have the genus Clavilithes?   This is a group I am very interested in and currently looking at the differences between French and British specimens, would be intrigued if the genus is represented in Italy.  I know there are species listed from Italy, but I wonder if they are actually Clavilithes or related as are the American which in my opinion are actually Clavilithes, but are clearly related!    

Chris Newman
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clypeus
Hi Colin,
I was wrong ! the real size is 21,5 cm. !
It's a monster! isn't it!

ITER IN PRAETERITUM
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clypeus
[attach:fileid=uploads/1681/monster.jpg]

ITER IN PRAETERITUM
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clypeus
Chris,
these are some different clavilithes that you can find in the middle eocene of the
north east Italy.clavilithes.jpg 

ITER IN PRAETERITUM
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Chris Newman

Thank you very much for posting those.   I would be extremely interested to know if they are all from the same locality?  I suspect not!


 


The specimen bottom right looks very similar to some of the very earliest Clavilithes from the Cuisien.  The two specimens on the left look much more like later specimens from the Lutetien, more like Rhopalithes?  Specimen top right again typical later Clavilithes.


 


Very, very interesting. 

Chris Newman
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clypeus
Hi Chris,
they are all from the same quarry!
The level is called "orizzonte di San Giovanni Ilarione" . The  exact stratigraphy is between the lower and the middle lutetien. We don't have enough iconography of all the species.
" fauna di S. givanni Ilarione (Parisien) " by  DE GREGORIO ( 1880 ) is the most complete iconography. Other like  Bayan, Hebert, Lamarck, Brogniart, Suess and Fabiani  had carried out studies on this fauna. To classify the shells we also use the "iconographie complƒÆ’‚¨te " - A. Cossmann 1910-1913.
I my opinion the clavs of the picture are :
CLAVILITHES LONGAEVUS ( bottom right )
CLAVILITHES NOAE ( top right and left bottom )
CLAVILITHES LOISELI ( bottom centre )
... but maybe I'm wrong...
On the next picture you can see a couple of  clavilithes Noae that I found last week on  an  upper eocene Bartonian quarry.They are not prep as you can see.clavi.JPG 
thank you for this useful discussion Chris.
Massimo

ITER IN PRAETERITUM
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Chris Newman

Hi Massimo,


 


Thank you very much for the information, most interesting .  As you are aware the taxonomic status of Clavilithes is a mess, they are a very interesting but frustrating genus, probably because they were so fast evolving.    I am currently looking at British Clavilithes and its clear there is much confusion within this group.  I am also looking a French material, which only adds confusion, for example what the French called Clavilithes longaevus is not the same as British Clavilithes longaevus, you have now added more confusion as what you have shown as Clavilithes longaevus from Italy is again not the same species!


 


If you had time I would be very interested to see more pictures of the Italian Clavilithes?  I would be particularly interested to see any juveniles. 


 


Again thank you for posting the pictures, they are very interesting.


 


Regards,


Chris  

Chris Newman
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clypeus
Ok Chris,
let's go on with this interesting comparison!
Will send you more pictures.
Massimo

ITER IN PRAETERITUM
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Chris Newman

Thank you Massimo, I really would appreciate that.   I donƒ¢¢â€š¬¢â€ž¢t at this moment in time have  photos I can post in return [computer problem].  However, on Alan Mortonƒ¢¢â€š¬¢â€ž¢s website there photos of most British Clavilithes, also my Campanile and the Gisortia we collected.  


 


I very much look forward to seeing more specimens


 


Regards,


Chris

Chris Newman
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Chris Newman

Sorry for got to add the link:


http://www.dmap.co.uk/fossils/


 

Chris Newman
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