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AMARSH
Thanks Grendel!
Andrew Marsh
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AMARSH
Hi all
 

Sorry to post another possible flint tool, but I couldn't resist. This was found up on the chalk at a place called Barton Hill Farm, near Luton, Bedfordshire. Other lithic implements have been found here in the past, so I thought it was worth a nosey around. This is what I found:

 

The main flake surface shows a clear swelling / bulb of percussion.

 

IMG_1618.JPG 

 

The reverse of the flake appears to have been retouched (?)

 

scraper.JPG 

 

scrap3.JPG 

 

So what d'you reckon? Am I going mad? Could this be a scraper, or is it just another stone to throw away LOL?

 

Thanks

 

Andrew

 

 
Andrew Marsh
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TqB
Andrew, I'm pretty sure that is a scraper.
Tarquin
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Mioplax
Positive ID on the scraper.
Definately men made. 
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AMARSH
Hi guys, thanks for the replies! I'll try and show the archaeologists today and see what they think - I'll let you know what they say. Hopefully when they see it in the flesh they'll agree.
 

Thanks

 

Andrew
Andrew Marsh
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spider
Nice, something else to look out for on your travels.
Have a nice day :0)
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ThomasM
Very nice, I would also say that it's a scraper.
Thomas

If you don't look, you won't find.
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AMARSH
Hi guys, thanks for the messages. I showed this to one of the archaeologists where I work, and his feeling was, this could be a scraper, but he wasn't 100% confident. He then showed me an article in a journal showing numerous neolithic / bronze age worked flints that were discovered in this location in the early 90s whilst field walking. A couple of the scrapers looked identicle to this. The trouble is he was quite sceptical as to whether the scrapers pictured were scrapers at all LOL! I guess I'll never know whether this is genuine or not - *sigh*.
 

Thanks

 

Andrew
Andrew Marsh
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andrasz
Hi Andrew,

That is definitely a side scraper and a very nice one, absolutely no doubts about it.

Based on the total lack of any apparent patination, I'd say it is fairly recent (in prehistoric terms, that is), late neolithic/early bronze age would make sense.
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TqB
I'm still convinced too, plenty of similar stuff in my area (where admittedly natural flint is rare).
Tarquin
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AMARSH
Hi Andrasz
 

Thanks for your message. I guess my reservations with this is the "retouch" along the edge of it. It looks deliberately shaped, particularly the way it curves round, but then I can half imagine damage like this occuring through plough damage. Hmmm. Having said that, I searched this field for hours, and didn't find anything remotely like this - I  turned over 1000s of flints before I found this one, and none had bulbs of percussion, and none looked deliberately shaped in this way. That and the fact that 42 other worked flints have been found in the past, must be a good sign?
Andrew Marsh
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andrasz
Hi Andrew,

Rest assured, that is definitely man made retouch. There is no way a rough and tumble process can create such regularly spaced, neat pressure flaking scars (natural or plough induced flaking is always by percussion, leaving very different, irregular lunate scars). Have handled thousands of prehistoric tools in the Sahara, have no doubts whatsoever.

Andras
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spider
The thing with comparing these is that many were disposable tools, relatively easy to make, probably easy broken and reasonably easily replaced. You will get lots of variations in quality from the percieved 'definate examples' taking into account the skill of the individual knappers perhaps as well as the intended purpose of the tool. As an offering or gift they would be made chip perfect but for everyday use the regular shape isnt essential. If an edge looks worked, it probably has been. This will create plenty grey areas when it comes to ID.
Have a nice day :0)
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Grendel
AMARSH wrote:
The trouble is he was quite sceptical as to whether the scrapers pictured were scrapers at all LOL!



 

That's interesting it's something I've always been a little sceptical of, some archaeologists seeming to ready to brand almost anything a flint tool. I do wonder on basis a lot of tools are branded tools. Nice to see there are archaeologists that share my reservations.
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AMARSH

Yes, to be honest I was  disapointed by his response LOL. Anyway, I'm pretty confident this is a tool - not as confident as my little blade (which is with the Portable Antiquities Scheme at the moment), but enough not to chuck it LOL.


So, does anyone have any flint tools to share on this forum or any other arcaheological bits they've picked up while fossiling? I know this is a fossil forum, but hey, as long as noone minds?
 

Thanks

 

Andrew
Andrew Marsh
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danny1
Hi  guys,  as  we  are  on  about  flint  tools,  and  there  are  some  guys  who  are  experts  on  this,  i  thought  i  would  post  this. 

Found  East  Lincs  i  think,  can't  really  remember  to  be  totally  honest,  but  its  always  intrigued  me.  The  shape  is  amazing in terms  of  a  pre historic  tool,  but is  it  natural ?  It  fits  in  the  hand  so  well,  the  cutting  edge  is  not  that  sharp. I've  shown  a  few  people  , one  guy  said it  was  a  tool  straight  away,  he  proclaimed  it to  be  one  of  the best  hes  seen,  the  other,  like  me  was totally  unsure.  The  work  marks  are not  really  there,  could  it  be  natural,  or  is it   a  tool ?


many  thanks






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ThomasM
Not sure, seems a strange shape to me.
Thomas

If you don't look, you won't find.
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danny1
yeh  thats  the  thing,  the  shape  is almost too  good  LOL.  
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danny1
Any  ideas  how  to  confirm  an  ID ?

many  thanks
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andrasz
Thomas,
Cannot really tell from the posted photos, not enough detail. Could you post a better closeup photo of the edge (especially the notch on the right, and part below) and of the reverse?


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andrasz
Sorry, that Thomas was supposed to be Danny1
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danny1
more  pics  ,  first  two  of  the  item discussed,  second  two  of  another  item  ive  picked  up  in  the  field,  prob  from  East  Lincs  too.





diff  item. 





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quagga
For what it's worth, I don't think either are man made.
Al


Time is nature's way of stopping everything happening at once.
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AMARSH
Have to say I agree with Al. Sorry Danny!
 

Andrew
Andrew Marsh
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prep01
I agree with Al about the first one, but the second one may be natural with some retouching?
Colin Huller
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danny1
thanks  guys,  yeh  the  second  one,  would  be  extremely  good  at  its  job,  its VERY  sharp  due  to  the  knicks  all  the  way  round. I know  very  little  about  these  though  LOL,  these  were literally  lying  in  the bottom  of  a  box  of  rocks  from decades  ago. 

The  side  on  profile  of  the  2nd  one  matches  a  pic  ive  seen  in  a book  somewhere. 

thanks  for  all  replies.
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andrasz
Danny,

The first one is a very doubtful maybe. It appears that the piece itself is a natural object, but I'm a little hesitant to dismiss the edge wear outright as not man made. There are plenty of examples where naturally formed pieces of flint (or other rock) have been used as accidental tools, producing an edge ware similar to purpose-formed real tools. It would be supportive if the area where you found it is known to produce tools, if not then on the balance of probabilities it is lilkely just another worn piece of flint.

The second one I'm almost 100% certain is natural. Such flakes may form when flint boulders are bashed against each other by wave action, but also frost/thaw cycles may produce them. I see no sign of edge use, and cortex flakes were usually discarded even in tool manufacture as their edges are soft, unsuitable for any purpose.
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andrasz
oops, that's supposed to be 'edge wear' in the first paragraph above, where is the edit function when one needs it... ? :)
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spartacus
Hi Guys, are there no cave paintings displaying a comprehensive catalogue of contemporary tooling ? That would be well handy ! Lamp


 
Keef
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danny1
Thanks  for  all  replies  guys,  its  really  useful  to  have  your  knowledge  on  here. 
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prep01
spartacus - "are there no cave paintings displaying a comprehensive catalogue of contemporary tooling ? That would be well handy ! "

We wished!!!!!!!!!

And a living marine reptile from Loch Ness wouldn't go amiss either Keef!

Colin Huller
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spartacus
prep01 wrote:
And a living marine reptile from Loch Ness wouldn't go amiss either Keef!



 
Hi Colin, I thought it had already been photographed ?

 

Keef
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Grendel
The first one looks like a piece of gravel, they put flint in a machine smash them into small chunks and use them on footpath and such. Alternately if could have happen naturally.
 

The second one's off a large pebble that's been impacted near one end, perfectly naturally. Stroll along a flint beach you'll see many.
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AMARSH

Hi Grendel. What d'you make of my flint? Do you think its a scraper?


Andrew
Andrew Marsh
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Grendel
From the picture looks like it's more likely than not.
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