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pete g
Thumbs Up Well done Fred i knew you,d know,Thumbs Down Wrong on this one, never was any good at ID,s from pics. A nice ammo though well done keep the gault fossils coming. Very underestimated is the gault clay, for what you can potentially find.
Cheers Pete
If you believe in reincarnation, you may be collecting yourself?.
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ThomasM
Hi all,

A quick question - when treating pyritic fossils with Paraloid, should you saok it in the Paraloid or paint it on? I'm referring specifically to the Gault clay ammonites where there are many voids in the pyrite, in some cases leaving the fossil almost hollow. In this instance I'm not sure I would be able to paint it on as the fossil would just oxidize from the inside out- however, I've never used Paraloid before so any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks


Thomas

If you don't look, you won't find.
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Fred
http://www.sheppeyfossils.com/pages/pdfs.html
Check out my downloads page for info on Pyrite conservation.
Fred
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gigantopithicus
 You want to try and get a thin layer all over the outer surface otherwise itll look like plastic.

 Paint it on where you can, and if needs be drip some off the tip of the brush into the voids and pour the residue back out.

 Remember the fossil needs to be stable beforehand - the biggest problem with pyritic fossils is temperature and humidity - if you paraloid it you can just be sealing problems in.


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ThomasM
Thanks to you both, I think I'll try both methods and see which one is more suitable.

Thomas

If you don't look, you won't find.
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ThomasM
Fred, just a quick question, I know that many Gault collectors use nail varnish and paraffin on their specimens to bring out the iridescent shells, but is this method reversible? It's just that I place a higher value on science than aesthetics and I don't want to do anything permeanant to nice specimens.
Thomas

If you don't look, you won't find.
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Julian123
nail varnish can be removed with Acetone.
Julian

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ThomasM
Thanks Julian but I was more wondering if the paraffin would stain the shell.

Thomas

If you don't look, you won't find.
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Fred
The parafin does darken and increase the iridescence of the specimen. The shell is very fragile and I doubt if paraloid can harden it enough to stop it flaking after a while. None of these methods are a permanent solution to pyrite decay. I have been down in the vaults of the Bentliff Museum and Art Gallery in Maidstone to check through the collection of Mick Cuddiford, a very important worker in the Gault clay. He bequeathed his collection to the museum and it is stored in a climate controlled room but is still not preventing the decay working its way slowly through the pyrite specimens in the collection. His specimens were preserved in a variety of ways, but even so several showed advanced signs of decay. You may wish to use a reversable method to preserve your specimens but personally I dont think that it is important when considering the transient nature of the fossils. Any method that helps to ensure the longevity of the specimen is worth trying. The best solution that I have at the moment is somwhat Heath Robinson. I use a solution of 'Ronseal wet rot wood hardener. between 15 and 20% solution so that the specimen does not shine too much. These resins are designed to repel moisture and so far, touch wood has been somewhat successful. Some of my specimens are 30 yrs old and still wholly intact.
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ThomasM
Thanks for that Fred, much appreciated. Do you know how the ammonites in
Jim Craig's collection were treated to stop the decay? I'd be
interested to know how different collectors tackled this problem.



A bit off topic I know, but while on the subject of Gault ammonites (I
thought it pointless to start a new thread) do you have any idea what
this one is? I was thinking Epihoplites compresssus or perhaps Anahoplites sp. but any thoughts would be appreciated.



Measures 39mm.
Am1.JPG 

Am2.JPG 

Thanks



Thomas

If you don't look, you won't find.
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Fred
Jim and I worked together at finding ways to preserve the ammos so we used a variety of methods. In the end Jim was using paraloid but quite a strong mix. The trouble with paraloid is that like most plastics it is not completely sealed it has a porous nature so that moisture will get in. to prevent cross contamination always keep your specimens seperate. Small crystal plastic containers work very well.
I need to see the venta straight on. I cant tell whether it is flat in section or slightly rounded.

Fred
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ThomasM
The venter is straight. The reason I think it's not an Anahoplites is that the tubercules are very strong (though it doesn't show on the photo) and I think it's something more robust.
Thomas

If you don't look, you won't find.
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ThomasM
Any ideas Fred?

Thomas

If you don't look, you won't find.
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pete g
Hi Thomas.
I don,t know what Fred thinks, he,ll no doubt be correct, my mentor. But comparing it to one of my alike specimens i,d say its a Hoplites maritimus, a juvinile specimen, it looks a spit of my one. What size is it?.

Cheers Pete
If you believe in reincarnation, you may be collecting yourself?.
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ThomasM
Hi Pete, it's just under 4cm. I don't know, it doesn't look quite right for

Hoplites maritimus either, its not as inflated (I can never
remember this one, is that the right term? If not what I mean is that
the whorl section is not as wide as that of H. maritimus.), also the ribbing is not as coarse. Here are a few more pictures of it, I do like mystery ammonites!

As stated above it's about 39mm.

Mystery1.JPG 

Mystery2.JPG 

Mystery3.JPG 

Mystery4.JPG 

MYstery5.JPG 

Thanks



Thomas

If you don't look, you won't find.
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pete g
Hi Thomas
Yeah i can see what you mean from these pics, the clear view of the ventre shows its not H maritimus, and its not as inflated, also the tubercules are not as prominant in your specimen for it to be H maritimus. I do think its a Hoplites sp though, was it found from the dentatus zone, top of bed 1, can you remember or just beach collected, it certainly looks like its from this horizon.

I,m sure Fred will give a possitive Id when hes back with us.

Cheers Pete g
If you believe in reincarnation, you may be collecting yourself?.
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Fred
+I
 think that this specimen is from a higher bed, perhaps bed X in which case it most closely resembles Epihoplites glyptus but could be a transitional form. I would label this as Epihoplites aff. glyptus.

Fred
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ThomasM
Thanks for that Pete and Fred, as stated above I had a feeling that it was Epihoplites but I wasn't sure. It was beach collected but I don't think it was from the dentatus nodule bed, the matrix isn't as gritty.

Thanks
Thomas

If you don't look, you won't find.
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