GuidesMagazineShopBuy FossilsJoin Hunts
scousemouse

hi,  I know this post is from a long time ago, but I am still trying to info info on the croc teeth found at wicklesham quarry.  The reason is that I am putting on a fossil event at the local library and I will be showing modern croc teeth along with a jurrasic specimen.[attach:fileid=uploads/369/Dakosaurus_tooth-_Rogers_Concrete_15-04-2012_1.jpg]
ScouseMouse
Quote 0 0
Richard
These teeth were all found on footpaths made of Faringdon Sponge Gravel.

The gravel is Lower Cretaceous, Aptian in age, but many of the fossils in the gravel are derived from the underlying Oxfordian and Kimmeridgian deposits. 

Any help with IDs would be gratefully received - especially the largest tooth. 

Photo 1
IMG_6493.JPG 

Photo 2
IMG_6496.JPG 

Photo 3
IMG_6497.JPG 
Richard
Quote 0 0
ThomasM
Hi Richard,
The first one is an ichthyosaur tooth, the second I am not sure, maybe fish, and the third are small button teeth from a fish like Lepidotes.

Thomas

Thomas

If you don't look, you won't find.
Quote 0 0
1.  Croc not Ichthy I believe,but see what others think.
2. Dont know
3. I identified some similar teeth from the same deposits as Lepidotes once, but was told the larger ones were croc molars,a new one on me.The two larger ones at least I would guess are croc molars based on what I was told.
Quote 0 0
ThomasM
Looking at this again I agree with rolo that the two bigger round teeth are from a crocodile such as Bernissartia, but I still think the first tooth is a large ichthy.
Thomas

If you don't look, you won't find.
Quote 0 0
Looking again I am even more certain it's croc...Ichthy teeth are more conical and lack the ridge down the sides of the crown...a characteristic of many croc teeth....a bit of a disagreement on this one
Quote 0 0
TqB
I'd go with croc; some Jurassic ichthy teeth can be ridged like that but, from what I've read, the Lower Cretaceous ones aren't.   
Tarquin
Quote 0 0
Richard
Hi 

Thanks for the replies posted above. I did have some ideas before posting this but wanted to see what others thought. 

1 Probably large marine crocodile 
2 Probably crocodile
3 Almost certainly Sphaerodus - which I think is a teleost fish? 

Agreements or disagreements welcome!
Richard
Quote 0 0
Julian123
1. Croc.
The others I don't have a clue.
Julian

Quote 0 0
Bill G
I agree with 2 croc teeth and a Sphaerodus tooth
Cheers, Bill
Quote 0 0
Naze Dave
Seems i cant add anything to the ids but lovely specimens, well done.
Thanks
Dave
Still Life
Quote 0 0
TqB
Can one order a load of Sponge Gravel?Wink
Tarquin
Quote 0 0
rambojohnj
Hi Richard,
 

1) Definately croc - probably Dakosaurus

2) Looks like the main cusp of a Hybodont tooth

3) Probably Sphaerodus and/or Lepidotes button teeth but as rolo says Goniopholis crushing teeth are similar

 

Hope this helps.

 

Cheers,

Nick
Quote 0 0
Richard
Thanks for replies posted above.

Nick: I have seen pliosaur teeth from FSG that look very similar to no. 1. 

How are crocodile teeth different - is it the distinctive ridge? 


Richard
Quote 0 0
rambojohnj
Hi Richard,
 

So far as I know pliosaur teeth tend to have a "D" shaped cross section and also strong ridges on the lingual/labial (or both) sides of the teeth.

 

Not all croc teeth have opposing side ridges but many do. I have seen teeth such as your one identified as Dakosaurus at the Oxford University Museum of Natural History.

 

There is not much literature out there dealing with vertebrates from FSG, however, there is a useful faunal list at the end of Raymond Casey's paper: "The Stratigraphical Palaeontology of the Lower Greensand".

 

Cheers,

Nick

 

p.s forgot to say nice finds! Amazing to think that the croc tooth has survived being redeposited and then trampled on a footpath!
Quote 0 0
Richard
Nick

That is very useful - thanks. 

I know the OUM well, and my reference to pliosaur teeth was based on specimens seen there.

The old FSG case had Goniopholis but as far as I know that specimen is no longer on display?

Presumably you are referring to teeth in the large display case of crocodiles on the ground floor. 
I must have another look at that. 
Richard
Quote 0 0
rambojohnj

Hi Richard,


I'm referring to collections at OUM that are not on display, or at least weren't when I last looked. They have a decent collection from Wicklesham/Coxwell which I am sure they will let you have a look at. PM me know if you want some more details.

 

Here are some pics for comparison of a pliosaur tooth I collected from Wicklesham. Only a small one at around an inch.

 

a.jpg 

 

b.jpg 

 

c.jpg 

 

d.jpg 

 

Cheers,

Nick
Quote 0 0
Richard
Thanks Nick - I saw this after your PM. 

From the photos, it seems that compared with a crocodile the pliosaur tooth has 
a) coarser lines ? 
b) some lines that go to the tip with some that are shorter? 
 

Richard
Quote 0 0
rambojohnj
Hi Richard,
 

I usually go by the D shaped cross section as being more indicative of a plio tooth, though when preserved the prominent ridges being very proud of the surface on a plio tooth can be a giveaway. I think it is the arrangement of these ridges that can be used to distinguish different genera/species.

 

Cheers,

Nick

 

p.s I'd be grateful if anyone could help ID my tooth further or point me towards relevant literature
Quote 0 0
ophthalmosaur

I'd go for:

1) croc., if Dakosaurus, (as stated) - will have minute denticles on the ridges - so small that they can hardly be seen but can be felt running thumbnail across;

2) hybodont shark tooth central lobe (as stated);

3) lepidotes teeth

re. the pliosaur tooth. I believe that Kimmeridgian pliosaur teeth have only been poorly studied. The expert on same told me that the teeth are all D shaped in cross section. Your tooth looks to be from some way back in the jaw, judging by the curved tip and size. Peloneustes teeth from the Callovian are circular in cross section.

Paul


Quote 0 0
Richard
Thanks Paul

1 Cannot see or feel any denticles so, unless they have been worn away, it is probably another genus. 

2 Thanks

3 Lepidotes? I think that they are more similar to Sphaerodus shown below

CIMG4257.JPG 


Richard
Quote 0 0
rambojohnj
ophthalmosaur wrote:


re. the pliosaur tooth. I believe that Kimmeridgian pliosaur teeth have only been poorly studied. The expert on same told me that the teeth are all D shaped in cross section. Your tooth looks to be from some way back in the jaw, judging by the curved tip and size. Peloneustes teeth from the Callovian are circular in cross section.

Paul





Thanks for that info Paul
Quote 0 0
Richard....hopefully these will assist in the ID's,
First a wealden croc tooth,(early cretaceous)...Scale in mm

555555555555555555555_002.JPG 

555555555555555555555_017.JPG 

Two teeth from the sponge gravels,(on my local golf course !)...the button tooth was ID'd as croc molar.

555555555555555555555_005.JPG 

555555555555555555555_011.JPG 

Alan
Quote 0 0
Richard
Thanks Rolo and all the others who have helped with this query.

Re: the button teeth - did they occur in alligators only? 

I have read that the button teeth were at the back of the mouth and used for crushing molluscs etc. 


Richard
Quote 0 0
ophthalmosaur

Richard,

Yes, I agree with you re. the spheroidal teeth. Didn't know about the crocodilian molars. All very interesting.

Paul

Quote 0 0
heath

Hi Richard

I have been finding and researching a lot of teeth from Kimmeridge Clay lately, so interesting to see yours...probably Cretaceous, not Kimm.

(1) Croc..................possibly Steneosaurus/ Teleosaurus (Teleosaurids). I think Dakosaurus and Metriorhynchus (Metriorhynchid type of croc, with blunter, wider jaws) have teeth with slightly serrated edge. But I have only gleaned this from the internet pics from search eg Metriorhynchus teeth). I have got several Steneosaur teeth , approx same size and shape as ur no.(1). Steneosaurus has a line down each side, extending only half way down from the tip.

For Kimm clay info google ƒâ€š‚  ƒâ€š‚  ƒâ€š‚  ƒâ€š‚  ƒâ€š‚  ƒâ€š‚  ƒâ€š‚  Ian West kimmeridge clay fossils

This is mainly about dorset but has plenty of info on crocs, plesios, plios found, plus links to other information on line. I have also been using "Fossils of the Oxford Clay" Palaeontological Ass., edited by Martill and Hudson. The chapters on fish and marine reptiles give a good basic background and some genera go on into the Kimm, etc. There are pictures of teeth, fish, croc , Ichthy, plesio and plio. Plio teeth have much deeper ridges and as u say the amount they go up the crown towards the tip is diagnostic.

(2) I agree with others , looks like the central cusp of a Hybodus shark.ƒâ€š‚ 

(3) Button like teeth look like Pycnodont fish teeth, broken away from the palate. Leptidotes has round button teeth like this, but so do other species and I'm not able to id yours. I personally have not heard of croc teeth like this. I thought the back, crushing teeth of crocs were much stouter than this, more robust, and wouldn't they have some sort of root as reptiles, whilst fish teeth look like your specimens.

Any way hope this helps, cos its a fascinating topic. I hope to post some more tooth photos(KIMM) soon. Look forward to any ideas you have. I shall be going to my local museum to help with ids too.

Quote 0 0
Richard
Hi Heath

Thanks for above.

You could be correct about the teeth being Cretaceous - Oxford University Museum has crocodile teeth of Cretaceous age from the Lower Greensand. 

Could you please post a photo of your steneosaur tooth/teeth? 

Re: pliosaur teeth - yes it seems fairly certain that these are not pliosaur. 

Re: button teeth - if you look at Rolo's post (a couple back) he has shown a button tooth with what appears to be a root? I've read that some fossil alligators have button teeth but have not seen the anything about crocodiles having them. 

Richard
Quote 0 0
heath

morning Richard,

There are pictures of ƒâ€š‚ Steneosaur teeth (whole and fragments) on the RECENT FINDS forum, not so long ago, dec. from me "heath" ƒâ€š‚  Kimmeridge teeth selection 1. ƒâ€š‚ also a plio, and possible croc grinding tooth. No one ided it for me!!!!!! But my best guess is back croc crushing/grinding tooth. Still researching it. You will see its much larger than your SHINY enamel "button" tooth.

all the best for now, I'm off on a trip so won't be checking the site for a few days. Heath

Quote 0 0
scousemouse
Hi all,

I live in Faringdon so I used to visit Wicklesham Quarry quite a bit until H & S shut out fossil collectors.  I have found a number of teeth would it be possible to help me id  them, the first set of photos show teeth that I thought were all Dakosaurus croc.

DSC_0082.JPG 

DSC_0083.JPG 

Root of tooth above.

Couple more teeth, both split in two
DSC_0084b.jpg 

The following teeth I have always thought to be fish teeth, ideas?

DSC_0085a.jpg 








ScouseMouse
Quote 0 0
Naze Dave
Of the last two, the one on the left looks like a shark tooth crown, the one on the right could be but i cant quite make out if it is flattened as much.
Thanks
Dave
Still Life
Quote 0 0
Dream Weaver
Great finds on this thread, everyone... Clap 

Scousemouse... Not so sure on the second one of those last two, but I'm 100% with Dave on the former one being a shark tooth crown. 


I think, therefore I am; I drink, therefore I'm no longer sure...
Quote 0 0
ammonite
I have enjoyed reading the comments and have had similar finds myself from two locations where the footpaths are covered in gravel from Wicklesham. I only found out about Wicklesham by finding out from the owners of the footpaths where the gravel came from. I have been to the quarry a number of times since and have never had much luck there.I wondered if the gravel that came out of the quarry a few years ago was more fossiliferous than the material that has been coming out recently?
I would also love to see some of the finds from the quarry itself. If I can get my camera skills organised I will post some photos of the teeth I have found.

 
Quote 0 0
scousemouse
That would be brilliant if you could post your finds as I am trying to collate the types of fossils found at this remarkable location.  I have heard first hand from the owners that a couple of the faces will be persereved for future generations to enjoy as it has SSI status.

ScouseMouse
Quote 0 0
Coolz
Have to say I've found this thread very interesting! Love seeing the pics of teeth people have found in the gravel. More more!
Ammos everywhere!
Quote 0 0
Write a reply...


Discussions on fossils, fossil hunting, rocks, locations, and identifying your finds.
(C)opyright 2019 - UKGE Ltd and UK Fossils - Contact us